D16Z6 build

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D16Z6 build

Post  MainSubject on Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:58 am

I have a 94 cx with the 1.5l, that has blown oil rings. Needless to say I'm running that baby into the ground. I picked up a D16Z6 out of a 95 ex. It's got high miles, so I plan to rebuild it. But why rebuild it to factory specs? Eventually I'd like to turbo this engine, as for now I can only afford an all motor build. I've never built a performance engine before "not that this will be the bee's knee's" but I'd like to do it right and not cheap out, spending less money on quality parts is my goal.

I would like to know from thought or experience on what I should do for this motor. In about a month I will have a budget of 2k, however I wouldn't mind spending 1500 lol. so any suggestions such as sending my cam out to be shaved, milling the head, boring the cylinders, forged connecting rods & pistons for the later on turbo. 3 angle valve job, ect.

thanks for any insight guys!
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  SpoonFed on Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:50 am

Really it's all up to what you want to do with the car. You need to ask yourself what is this car's purpose for you? What do you want to achieve with this car? Then start making a build list for the engine to see what all of this will cost you. I bet if you do anything than a stock rebuild you're going to find out this is going to cost more than $1500 to do.

I feel your pain on the burning oil issue, my b7 also has bad control rings and I'm burning monstrous amounts of oil right now and it kills me. Almost to the point I don't want to drive the car anymore... So I was going the same route you are talking, in my garage I have 2 z6 engines and my plans were to do a small build and put it in my car to get it going. But I started to think about all the questions that I posted before. And realized that I was going to be wasting money doing it that way...

Here is what I suggest you do to save money and ultimately get what it is you want from the get go. Keep running your d15 even with the oil burning, just drive it nice don't be a billy bad ass. Keep putting oil in it when it needs it, and if you're not already use cheap oil. You're going to burn it anyways in an engine you honestly don't care about. Use the $3 qt Autozone special oil it will burn just as nicely as the other oils and put less of a dent in your wallet every paycheck.

Now figure out what you want the z6 to do for you, turbo, all motor, high revving, high compression, lower compression, reliability, good gas mileage, track car, drag racer ect... You get the point that I'm trying to make. Then do your research, read, read, read, do your research on other people's builds that are similar as to what you're trying to accomplish. Then start buying your parts...

You said you ultimately want to build a boosted engine, well then instead of spending $1500 on an NA build to only boost the engine later. Why not take your time and build a boosted engine now. Here is what I WOULD DO you will be different but you want opinions and I will give mine.

Stock rebuild on the head, if it needs to be milled make sure it's milled to the very minimum amount. (z6 head is already pretty good for like 300+hp)
Stock rebuild the block, once again if it needs to be decked the stock minimum amount, hone the cylinder walls stick with stock 75mm bore.
Micro polish the crank journals, if your crank needs to be turned I would find one that didn't I hate to have to use over sized bearings.
Delta turbo regrind camshaft
AEM TRU-TIME adjustable cam gear
ARP head studs
ARP rod bolts
ACL racing bearings
FJ Distributor Vitara piston and rod kit combonation (Good for like 500+hp)
Walbro 255 fuel pump
450cc DSM injectors
Cometic head gasket
And a home made turbo kit by piecing it together yourself, or if you don't want to do that then get the GReddy kit...

This setup is easily good if tuned properly for 400+hp and should be pretty reliable and still get OK gas mileage. Now at this moment since you're talking about making power and getting a bigger badder engine. I'm going to assume you already have all of your old busted suspension replaced. Because we all know that if you're going to run this kind of power on an old busted suspension all that power wont mean squat when you're upside down in a ditch dead. Because your old busted worn out suspension failed under all of that big hp that even the brand new stock suspension was not designed to handle... But we all know that Smile
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  Zen Chameleon on Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:09 am

I don't know jack about turbo set-ups but Spoonfed is right, it's either one direction or the other.
A deap full internal "rebuild" set-up for N/A or Boost engine will cost more than you listed. But you'll get more horse power numbers out of a turbo set-up.


Allow me to entertain you...

There are endless possiblilities of going about this depending on what you're truely wanting to accomplish. What we/you need to know first is the basics...

1: What kind of funds are you willing to spend?
2: What is the end goal?
3: What kind of time frame are you looking at to complete the task?
4: What skillz/knowledge do you have or in other words how much do you plan to do yourself vs. having done by others?
5: What resources do you have at your disposal to get/find materials and labor needed?
6: Is this project for needed daily living or for occasional wild crazy fun or both?
7: Are there any local or state laws that effect you choices?

By first answering these questions above they will help narrow down your options quickly by presenting a foundation to go by. One mistake that I personally see from time to time when people are starting a new project is that they don't fully understand the project in it's origanal raw form before trying to go over board with upgrades. If you already understand the basic functions, and you've sorted through the answers above then you are ready to start planning for your new project. Now it's time to narrow down the options that are available to you by how they help you achieve your goals and yet stick to your foundation you've already set forth. At this point you'll prolly still have a few different dirrections to choose from, if so then it will mostly be up to a matter of opinion which will be left up to you to decide. Researching with serious conviction of what others have done and how they have done it will help uncover the answers your looking for.

Only you can decide on what to build and how to build it.


Last edited by Zen Chameleon on Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:30 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  MainSubject on Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:21 am

you bring up a lot of very good points, hense why I wanted to come on the forum and ask around before I spent money in the wrong places. The car will be my DD, hopefully after this winter she won't see another. And my initial plan was to do everything needed for a turbo in the build, without the turbo for now. Just so I could get the motor in the car so it gets out of it's own way. However I don't want to rush anything, nothing I'm going to do is easily undone, and no re-funds lol.

As for suspension, this was going to be the next question I had. I noticed with it on the lift that the car has some KYB coil-overs, however they are non-adjustable. I'm not sure if the PO put these on, if they came on the car, or if they are any better than OEM. So I'm pretty much ruling those out. I have a rear strut brace, and I'm starting to build a rear lower tie bar. and eventually fab some front ones. As for coil-overs, and suggestions on some cheaper good ones for a DD? or any other suspension mods?
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  Zen Chameleon on Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:31 am

Ok I'm done editing my above post lol. Good Luck Very Happy
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  SpoonFed on Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:33 am

MainSubject wrote:you bring up a lot of very good points, hense why I wanted to come on the forum and ask around before I spent money in the wrong places. The car will be my DD, hopefully after this winter she won't see another. And my initial plan was to do everything needed for a turbo in the build, without the turbo for now. Just so I could get the motor in the car so it gets out of it's own way. However I don't want to rush anything, nothing I'm going to do is easily undone, and no re-funds lol.

As for suspension, this was going to be the next question I had. I noticed with it on the lift that the car has some KYB coil-overs, however they are non-adjustable. I'm not sure if the PO put these on, if they came on the car, or if they are any better than OEM. So I'm pretty much ruling those out. I have a rear strut brace, and I'm starting to build a rear lower tie bar. and eventually fab some front ones. As for coil-overs, and suggestions on some cheaper good ones for a DD? or any other suspension mods?

I feel the MOST important thing to building a car is the suspension. You simply CANNOT cheap out on the suspension, but we are all on a budget some bigger than others.

To answer your question no the KYB's did not come with the car somebody else put those on. And if they are non adjustable they are going to be the KYB GR2 struts which are a better than stock replacement strut. They were not designed to be lowered but to perform at stock ride height.

And when I say you need to work on the suspension I'm not talking about just coilovers and strut bars. You need to replace all your bushing, tie rods, ball joints, EVERYTHING because I can almost guarantee that it's all worn out and no good. Then you can worry about coilovers, and strut bars, and brace bars, adjustable camber kits, ect. Once again this is a research needed subject.
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  MainSubject on Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:53 pm

1: What kind of funds are you willing to spend? - $2,000 right now, more as it comes in.
2: What is the end goal? - a DD civic that's turbo'd in a logical sense "keeping decent MPG"
3: What kind of time frame are you looking at to complete the task?- Motor is sitting in my garage, so no time frame, just prefer sooner.
4: What skillz/knowledge do you have or in other words how much do you plan to do yourself vs. having done by others? - 2ndyr in a automotive technology class at a vocational school, providing all the typical tools you would find at your dealer.
5: What resources do you have at your disposal to get/find materials and labor needed? - as listed above.
6: Is this project for needed daily living or for occasional wild crazy fun or both? - Both for the time being.
7: Are there any local or state laws that effect you choices? - none that I'm aware of, or that would stop me Very Happy

And needless to say, yes my bushings such as trailing arm bushing and whatnot are there, but cracked to hell. As for tie rods, ball joints and all of the other wonderful suspension components, would anything such as napa's premium products be sufficient? or are you talking specifically aftermarket? just so I know where to look for my research.
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  SpoonFed on Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:15 pm

MainSubject wrote:1: What kind of funds are you willing to spend? - $2,000 right now, more as it comes in.
2: What is the end goal? - a DD civic that's turbo'd in a logical sense "keeping decent MPG"
3: What kind of time frame are you looking at to complete the task?- Motor is sitting in my garage, so no time frame, just prefer sooner.
4: What skillz/knowledge do you have or in other words how much do you plan to do yourself vs. having done by others? - 2ndyr in a automotive technology class at a vocational school, providing all the typical tools you would find at your dealer.
5: What resources do you have at your disposal to get/find materials and labor needed? - as listed above.
6: Is this project for needed daily living or for occasional wild crazy fun or both? - Both for the time being.
7: Are there any local or state laws that effect you choices? - none that I'm aware of, or that would stop me Very Happy

And needless to say, yes my bushings such as trailing arm bushing and whatnot are there, but cracked to hell. As for tie rods, ball joints and all of the other wonderful suspension components, would anything such as napa's premium products be sufficient? or are you talking specifically aftermarket? just so I know where to look for my research.

From my research NAPA premium OEM parts are a really good way to go. In most cases NAPA premium parts are just as good as if not sometimes better than aftermarket parts, so those will work just fine and dandy! Rather you have a fun and safe car than a fun and dangerous one. Saftey first, we would rather keep you alive!
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  WORPsol on Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:30 pm

DO NOT RUN NAPA OIL PUMP!!!!!!!!!!

A buddy of mine had one fail after 75miles and trashed his crank, bearings, tuner toys rod. Hard to find just 1 tuner toys rod.

Oil pump and water pump Honda only. Timing belt just get a Gates from Oreilly's. A Honda belt is just a Gates. It has both Gates and Honda stamped on it.

Not to argue with Spoon but DSM 450cc inj wont hit 400hp. Bout everything else in his thread is correct.

If you are replacing bushings(as you should) go ahead and get a Energy Suspension master kit and the few it dont come with. Also make sure you get the rear trailing arm bushings. On a side note they often squeak alot.
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  SpoonFed on Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:39 pm

Thanks for clearing up the injecor size. I was going off memory and could not remember what injector size to go with.
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  WORPsol on Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:58 pm

DSM 450cc is what alot of guys run. But only good to about 300hp. Maybe less. I know for ~400whp on e85 I had to run 1000cc. On 93 I could have gotten away with 720cc. You can run 450cc but the duty cycle will be high and same with the fuel pressure. You can run a higher fuel pressure and make the inj flow more but its not the best way or that healthy on them. Also dont wanna run over 80 to 85% duty cycle on them. Will wear out alot quicker.
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  MainSubject on Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:33 am

Yeah, my trailing arm bushings aren't squeaking, none of my bushings are. Though I have seen them and they are all cracked. Also I get a clunk in the front end over bumps and I really don't think it's my strut. Probably a sway bar bushing or something.

As for the trailing arm bushings, currently at my auto tech 2 class we're doing that job to a 98 ex. Needless to say it sucks, but now I know what's involved. Also we had the class next door, which would be machining, mill out a specific press fitting on their lathe. So it should be easier for me when the time comes Very Happy
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  SpoonFed on Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:07 am

MainSubject wrote:Yeah, my trailing arm bushings aren't squeaking, none of my bushings are. Though I have seen them and they are all cracked. Also I get a clunk in the front end over bumps and I really don't think it's my strut. Probably a sway bar bushing or something.

As for the trailing arm bushings, currently at my auto tech 2 class we're doing that job to a 98 ex. Needless to say it sucks, but now I know what's involved. Also we had the class next door, which would be machining, mill out a specific press fitting on their lathe. So it should be easier for me when the time comes Very Happy

Wish I had a shop to play in...
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  MainSubject on Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:14 am

Yeah, it's nice lol. But on the best days I only get 2hrs to work. And if the car stays for a day or more then the am class can mess with it even when they shouldn't, which is a bummer since most high school kids there are dinks and don't understand what they're doing. Which leads me to wishing I had my own little 2 bay garage and a lift Smile
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  MainSubject on Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:39 am

Hey, it's been a while. As it turns out that income I was supposed to get has been post-poned, there for my part time job is now paying for a stock Z6. However I'v decided to take some time before it goes in to paint everything, water pump, timing belt, port and polish. On top of that some good news, the rear main seals are new, and the cylinders have been honed, so the motor has been somewhat rebuilt before me, and I'm just hoping they went as far as replacing crank and rod bearing along with rings. as for the port and polish list I've done...

-throttle body.
-inlet side of the intake manifold for the TB.
-the bottom 4 ports on the intake manifold as far as my dremel would reach.
-intake ports on the head, fully polished through to the valve seat.
-sharpened the intake runners, or the divider, to a razor blade like finish.
-polished the exhaust ports fully.
-cleaned up the valves with a wire wheel.
-Re-seated the valves.
-polished the combustion area on the head.

If anyone has any suggestions on what else might be done to help my Z6 run smoother I'm open to them, not so sure about my wallet though haha.
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  SpoonFed on Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:52 am

MainSubject wrote:Hey, it's been a while. As it turns out that income I was supposed to get has been post-poned, there for my part time job is now paying for a stock Z6. However I'v decided to take some time before it goes in to paint everything, water pump, timing belt, port and polish. On top of that some good news, the rear main seals are new, and the cylinders have been honed, so the motor has been somewhat rebuilt before me, and I'm just hoping they went as far as replacing crank and rod bearing along with rings. as for the port and polish list I've done...

-throttle body.
-inlet side of the intake manifold for the TB.
-the bottom 4 ports on the intake manifold as far as my dremel would reach.
-intake ports on the head, fully polished through to the valve seat.
-sharpened the intake runners, or the divider, to a razor blade like finish.
-polished the exhaust ports fully.
-cleaned up the valves with a wire wheel.
-Re-seated the valves.
-polished the combustion area on the head.

If anyone has any suggestions on what else might be done to help my Z6 run smoother I'm open to them, not so sure about my wallet though haha.

For having a low budget it seem to me you are on the right track, keep us updated!
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  MainSubject on Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:46 am

Alright, that's not bad to hear! As I will.

However I have a question, I HAD an P28 ecu that came with the Z6, and the tranny that was on the motor went to my friend, and going from an auto to a 5spd he needed that same ecu. Me being a nice guy and him doing his swap sooner I gave it to him with the deal being he buys be another P28 before my swap. here I am months after his swap with no ecu. If the opportunity shows up where I can swap the motor at a shop... Can I run the D15 ecu with the D16 motor? I figure the only thing I'll loose is VTEC and the D15 has a narrow band O2, whereas the D16 has a wideband. Other than those should I be okay for a few weeks while my friend gets me the correct computer?
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  WORPsol on Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:26 pm

I can chip and load a p28 man on your ecu. You wont have the correct fuel or timing maps as well as no vtec with the d15 ecu. You are wrong on the O2's too. The d15 may have a non heated o2 where the d16 has a heated o2. With a chipped ecu you can disable the o2 heater or you can run the couple extra wires needed to make it work. You also have to run the correct wires for vtec too.
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  MainSubject on Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:35 pm

Alright, so from what I understand here. Currently with the D15 ecu I won't have issues with fuel or timing using it on the D16?

And My plan is for my friend to order me a P28 this week, the car needs to be driving after the swap due to it being my dd. However if the ecu differences just won't work that's something else I'll have to deal with.

So yeah, all I'm worried about right now is if my current ecu will work, as for the right one it shouldn't be too long until it's in the car.

Sorry for needing clarification, I just don't want to drop a motor if I need an ecu haha. Thanks for all your help btw WORPsol.
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Re: D16Z6 build

Post  WORPsol on Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:17 pm

Whats the code on the ecu? If its a p06 or sim then it wont have the correct fuel or timing maps. It also wont have vtec control.

If he wants to order one from me I have some non vtec ecu's I can chip and socket and convert to a vtec with the correct maps. I would do it for $175 and then I would refund $75 once I received your ecu in return. It would be loaded with a map for a z6.
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